In response to Misty Bella’s recent post titled Aging Gracefully, Budhoose Kanjoose wrote:
“Madam, The women who feel the threat of rejection are simply following their insticts. Rejection is natural and real. No man continues to love a woman for too long; some psychologists say seven years, unless compelled by the society and cercumstances. Even then it is just a put on… The physical appearance of woman is practicaly more important for an average man, who does not care for a woman’s intellect. Most men would prefer to have a woman who is inferior to him intellectually; physically beautiful rather than intelligent. So if you want to attract men, throw your intellect away and have a make over to glamour. I am just generalising. Specifics may be different and exceptional…”
This comment really has me and Candy thinking. Is this true?
I’ve written a post in my notebook arguing that sexuality is largely non-physical… that it’s in the mind, and not much based on ones appearance and physical youthfulness. But then, after Candy and I started discussing the topic again this evening, I had a flash of insight that maybe Budhoose has a largely valid point.
And so, on a long walk this evening, we’re going to discuss this topic, and indeed the nature of husband-wife love (which necessarily needs to be of a lasting nature, despite the ravages of age, disease, obesity, senility etc.)
After that, tomorrow morning, I’ll put up my post.
___________________________________________
OK, it’s tomorow morning already. Candy and I — we walked, we drove, we talked for maybe three hours last night. Budhoose’s comment cannot be adequately discussed until one frames an adequate working definition of Love. And once you frame that working definition, the truth or otherwise of Budhoose’s argument immediately becomes apparent.
So, if Love is defined as that I-like-being-around-you feeling that we all have when we get the hots for someone, then yes, physical youthfulness and attractiveness plays a big role in the continuance of this love. At this stage of love, which I would term as being-in-love, it is important for you — man or woman – to look right, sound right, smell right and make all the right moves.
But while you are at this stage, the bonding is not complete. In fact, the bonding has only just begun.
But several years down that road, one ceases to notice each other’s appearances by-and-large. One is so used to each other’s presence that it seems inevitable in ones life. Yes, it is nice if ones spouse looks pleasant and youthful, in the same way as it is nice if ones children look smart, and if ones parents and family members look handsome, beautiful, well-dressed etc.
If ones spouse looks young and attractive, I think it is nice in the same way as if ones home looks neat and presentable. But hey, if your home is a bit shabby, that doesn’t make it any less your home, right? Be it ever so humble, when you return home after weeks of staying in five-star resorts around the country, you will sigh deeply and say, from the heart, “Ah, there’s no place like home!”
It’s like that between spouses: there’s a comfort factor that goes beyond appearances. Your spouse is yours, while other people aren’t yours in the same way. In Candy’s words, “No matter what the issues are between us, I feel tender towards you in a way that I don’t feel towards any other man. It’s possible that another man may be more handsome and richer than you. It’s possible that overall, he may have better attributes than you. But I won’t feel the same way towards him… because he is not mine… and you’re mine.”
I think this is true of everybody… men, women, children, old folks, pets… we feel tender for those who are ours, and I see no reason why a spouse should be an exception, no matter how he or she looks.
However, Budhoose’s observation has some validity. It is important to maintain oneself, and not allow oneself to deteriorate unduly. While there is no need to feel anxious to cover up every wrinkle and blacken every grey hair, it is unkind to oneself and to ones spouse to allow oneself to age before ones time, and turn into a potbellied, belching, uncouth caricature of ones original self.
Let us deeply accept ourselves and the fact that we are all aging… and then let us maintain ourselves by eating and living right, exercising, dressing well and grooming ourselves to look and feel at our best.
Let us look our age, but in a well-groomed and smart way. But let us not go overboard by feeling compelled to use hair dyes and wrinkle-lift creams to try to look ten years younger, just because we are afraid that our spouses will otherwise begin to reject us.
Coming to Budhoose’s argument about the seven-year itch. “No man continues to love a woman for too long; some psychologists say seven years, unless compelled by the society and cercumstances. Even then it is just a put on…”
I wonder why men would feel compelled by “society and circumstances”. As I understand it, if enough men feel strongly enough about it, society and circumstances would change to accommodate our desires. Why do we, who bring home the bread and lay down the law for our families, need to “put on” an act?
I believe that we do not put on an act. Love is a much deeper thing than merely liking or disliking appearances. After years of living together and putting up with each other’s quirks and foibles, we grow roots into each other’s beings. Merely saying or thinking, “I don’t love her any more… the old hag!”, doesn’t even scratch the surface of this deep-rooted, organic phenomenon.
[Postscriipt: Budhoose says, "The physical appearance of woman is practicaly more important for an average man, who does not care for a woman's intellect. Most men would prefer to have a woman who is inferior to him intellectually; physically beautiful rather than intelligent. So if you want to attract men, throw your intellect away and have a make over to glamour. I am just generalising. Specifics may be different and exceptional..." I have a few thoughts on this part, but I'll save it for the next post.
Budhoose, this is just a friendly argument. There's no offense meant, so I hope you'll take no offense. Thank you for provoking a lot of discussion and inspiring a lot of thought.]
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love…beauty…marriage…intellect…all seem to be mixed up here.
not that they r mutually exclusive….but they all have their own hues.
love marriage ka mohtaz nahi hai…..thats the first.
of course love has all colors ….as some one said…red hot….green …etc….i agreee.
na hi….love beauty ka mohtaz hai….so there….lots of arguments r out of the window.
and yes….who says btiful females got no intellect or souls….????
and yes…marriage…is lots of frndship and being a companion….above lots of things.
and if ur partner…….loves looking gud….i dnt c no problem.
Cooooool Post…I Like It!
…I Like It!
http://360.yahoo.com/clifford.kelly
another WOW. I am not commenting..i am only absorbibg. i have my own particular theory about it which i dare not at the moment rite apost on!!! i am a coward?? maybe..but i find this fascinating………………..
Simply superb though I guess its post already done .. yet I loved the way you”ve analysed … too good ..gripping ..dfr
hmmm…quite an interesting debate and analysis of budhoose’’s comments, though i can”t get myself to digest his words which say men don”t care for a woman’’s intellect! Wonder which woman would like to be loved and be called unintelligent(whether she actually is or not is a different matter!)
sh….love is blind…and thus has lil to do with the looks….if u love someone, you find that person beautiful…I rest my case…
but if u have loved her as much as she has loved you u grow old gracefully…..love and lots of lust is what is required to look gud at any age……
u knw wot if a woman is dumb she ages badly but if a woman is smart she knows how to age gracefully…..look at katherine hepburn attractive and headstong till the end……and wot abut the beauties….elizebth taylor looks horrid….so does saira banu……so men do u want to live a life time with a dumb blone who wud be stupid and wud age gracelesslessy or gentlemen wud u much prefer to be wid me….preppy, vivacious…..and live u might in a five star hotel but do u think u wud be comfortable in it…….give me a man like charles any day who loves the frumpy camilia….lol
Your analogy is flawed…..in actual life we may be allowed to live for some time in Five star hotel. But in that analogy are we allowed to wander in our marriage life
Anand
Fully agree with Barkha…. Well the external appreance can attract only dumb men. For men and women with substance, its the intellectual stimulation that matters and keep them close for ever. Pretty eyes and face would remain the same and would decline with age but intellectually and emtionally a person is new every day since the expereince of every day would add something to his/ her gray matter…. i would not even like to spend five minutes with a handsome dude having five pack abs who cant intellectually stimulate me and does not respect women for their intellect..
buddhose…. says “The physical appearance of woman is practicaly more important for an average man, who does not care for a woman’’s intellect. Most men would prefer to have a woman who is inferior to him intellectually; physically beautiful rather than intelligent. So if you want to attract men, throw your intellect away and have a make over to glamour. ”
Damn such men, I would hate a man who doesn”t acknowledge my intelligence, forget trying to get his attention. Only dumb men can be attracted to dumb beauties….. it will still be “made for each other”
to hell wid buddhose kanjoos….another mcp……ok….why did charles dump his diana for the dumpy and inelegant camila…..why was iris mudroch, frieda chalo……..ll attract men inspite of their frumpy looks….ok most men are like you buddhose kanjoos…..but some beg to differ….meanwhile let me dry the paint on my TOE NAIL……and where are the danglers……i need to look pretty…..heck!
goood post ghosty……candy gives u great inputs….
The notion of beauty is context specific and may vary from place to place, culture to culture and person to person, as also it is rightly said, its in the eyes of beloved. I think there are so many factors that make a person fall in love with some one. physical appearance has an important role only in the begining but not so much at the later stage of life. I fully agree with the fact that the men as well as women should definitely take care of themselves through proper diet and expercise but there is not need to go overboard to look younger…The most improtant thing for survival of happy married life is mutual understanding, respect for each other and the comfort zone that both the spouses feel for each other. FG, thanks for such a thought provoking write up on a deep emotional yet practical issue…
Only Misty bella can rescue me now. Heelpp! heeeelp. I need a few days to think of love or lust or attraction or crush, what do you call that. Or are there different things? budhosehelpless
Where is the question of anxiety & rejection when both ppl are aging together? Why would a women fear when she is already aware that her husband too is growing old. Is it so that one wud grow old and wud develop wrinkles while other one wud still b b’ful & plum ??? I feel such efforts for looking younger are made keeping in view the outer world/ society at large and not the spouse. …. After all both are in the same boat ?????????????
There are different shades to love - there is a red hot love, that new lovers swear by, there is a bright green love, which is symbolic of a couple raising a family together, there is a blue love of growing old together. When the couple together goes thro these shades love stays at the same level - when one matures to the blue, and the other stays at the red, love goes under trial!! Love can be for many reasons - for attraction to a body, for attraction to a mind, for attraction to another’’s ability to allow you to flower and shine. None of these loves are better or worse. Just like love happens for many reasons, love is lost for almost a similar number and for yet another almost simliar number love is regained!! It’’s sad to live in a constant threat that you are being loved less. The only real way of leaving that insecurity behind is being content with who you are - if you need to change to be loved, it aint love at all- isnt it?
1 . Does the 7-year-old- itch formula apply to the men alone? And what happens after these 7 years to the couple ?? 2. Is love just skin-deep ? I wonder what would happen to the flourishing cosmetic industry around the world without men like Budhoose who harbour such thoughts about beauty and relationships :D.(No offence meant , Mr Budhoose ) . Finally , ” those who love deeply never grow old; they may die of old age, but they die young. ” Hence why fear about mutual rejections ? Nice move on your part ,Ghostu .You have given women something to debate upon :).
4 growing old … I mean it is ur choice … I am working for 2.5 years now .. but still when I travel alone in trains & take flights .. at times ppl misunderstand me for a student and wonder why I am travelling alone… of course I smile and feel happy about that … I don”t wear make up but I visit parlour for my wax each 15 days … I also get a haircut after 40 days .. I go for swimming daily ….. does it mean I am trying to hide age ????.. no but since I love myself I take care of my body and my looks and this automatically makes me look younger by say a couple of years … … then what is wrong in looking 20 at 24???????
Even women won’t love those bald, potbelly, fat men. I mean he need not be tom cruise but shud at least do as much as he can…. Just because he is 35, married and have kid doesn’t give him a license not to shave daily..
As for loving him.. I think it is about metamorphosis… you can’t predict that how two people (who share similar interest today) would behave 10 years down the line or how much they wud have grown in their individual sphere. I mean today we both love traveling but quite likely that 10 years down the line I start loving books & philosophy.. But he still acts as 25-year-old boy and packs his bags each second day.
And in that case love wud disappear and then it wud be only symbiosis which wud be working.. You earn bread and I do the chores….
And am sure I will move out and wud find someone else (not necessarily a man) who also likes to read “Ryszard Kapuschinki” and is willing to discuss “ The Emperor” with me…
No women taking stands here?…Hmm…Truth, it is a mix of a lot of things. It differs from woman to woman and man to man. On a generalised note I have always wondered, like TV remotes, what is it that men have about tits and ass (never mind the phrases used) - flummoxes me all the time. Yes agreed that physical appearance is also important but not quite as much as mental. Is it any wonder why people comment “Whats a sexy babe like that doing with a baldy like him?” Mental? Intellectual? Money?…generalising this doesnt really give answers…the answers lie in individuals more than anyone else…an intellectual conversation can be a major attraction cause, but then so would eyes with depth, hands…A sense of humour can be a turn on and so can a dimpled smile be…Perhaps women in India do not majorly have affairs because of the pati-vrata syndrome, pot-bellies, baldheads…whatever…perhaps. One never knows!
As for growing old gracefully, it comes from acknowleding the face one sees on the mirror and smiling at what one sees, not frowning over the wrinkles that seem to be appearing more often. Where the wrinkles are is what matters - on the forehead? besides your mouth? Does it appear when your eyes crinkle with laughter? Do you cringe everytime some teenager calls you aunty or uncle or are you still hung up on the Bhaiya/Didi syndrome? Do you insist a child calls you by name so your availability status in the market does not get affected? Bottome line always is - do you look at yourself in the mirror and smile at what you see or not?
well i guess appearences are imp to an extend..but what i find appealing in a man may be so different from the next woman-for me it”s more the person”s confidence..how comfy they are in thier own skin,basic decency,somebody who is well read and there is so much more…it can be the way he speaks to his kids…or his wife..or the way he treats the people who work for him..courtesy, respect for the world are big time turn ons..and these dont really have anything to do with external appearence…brad pitt according to me is over rated…tom cruise is a pretty poster boy-but then women tie themselves up in knots over em…-what i am trying to say is that say external factors matter-well then it definitely wud vary from person to person…
Agreed that it’’s all in the mind…but the eyes put all of it there in the first place…
Question to Budhoose - Does this fear of rejection apply to men as well? Do men think that women find covertly oogling, belching men with aging bodies, expanding bellies, receding hairlines, groping hands appealing? The reason why many Indian women do not have extra-marital affairs with other men even if sorely tempted, is centuries of social conditioning of ”pati-vrata” values. Me thinks that the average woman is more attracted towards the size of a fellow’’s bank-balance, even in arranged marriages. But acceptance and rejection are not external. If a person has the wisdom to accept him/herself as he/she is, that leads to a strength of character which is in itself compelling and attractive. The external kind of beauty is transitory and depending on that for inner validation is foolish indeed.
lol..waiting…let me check out the other post in the meantime…I can see somethign sparking off a hot debate here…