At the death of every pet kitten or rabbit, my grief-stricken kids tearfully ask the same question: "Why does God kill such cute, innocent creatures? Why does he inflict pain and disease on them? How can you say God is kind and merciful then?"
Eternal questions. No matter how many times one answers them, one can never really lay them to rest, because dil hai ke manta nahin.
There are many levels to understand and address these questions. Answering them repeatedly over the years has enabled me to explore many lines of thought. (Of late, I don't have to be the guy answering these questions; my kids explore the answers on their own, so that I'm more like the moderator of a group discussion.)
Let me share a few of our thought processes, where we try together to identify the constraints of the human psyche, which prevent us from seeing things from God's-eye-view. The human psyche fails to understand the paradox of Total Love, whereas God / Nature operates at the level of this paradox.
Statement no 1: The human psyche automatically considers lengthening of life as good, kind and merciful, and shortening of life as evil, cruel and undesirable. But God / Nature has no such automatic tendencies. To God / Nature, it is the same whether I live for another five decades, or drop dead this very instant. It makes no difference whether I stay in good health, or suffer the agonies of a debilitating disease.
Statement no 2: What is said in point no. 1 is a profound-sounding lie without the converse, which completes the paradox: You and I matter enormously to God / Nature. Each one of us ' whether human, plant or beast, predator or prey, large as whales or microscopically tiny ' matter as much as anything else in the whole universe. We matter as much as entire planets and galaxies, because we are, each one of us, like entire planets and galaxies. Each molecule is a solar system, each person's body is a tropical forest housing millions of creatures, both benign and not-so-benign, but held in check by our immune system. Indeed, each of our body's cells is an individual, as unique as you or I. The birth and death of each cell is as momentous as the birth and death of each one of us human beings.
Statement 1 plus 2 = the paradox of Total Love: Individually, we matter enormously from the God's-eye view ' and yet we are dispensable, individually and collectively. This is irrespective of whether we are "sinners" or "saints", "pure-hearted" or "guilty". It is irrespective of whether we are "destined for greatness" or "doomed to lifelong obscurity". These terms in quotes have meaning only from the human standpoint.
If I may venture to define God's-eye-view, or God's 'state of mind' in a nutshell, it would be: (i) Profound awareness of and profound love and concern for each and every being, each and every particle, past, present and future. Profound love for each part, and for the sum-total. (i.e. EVERYTHING matters. (ii) Simultaneously, profound indifference for each, and for the sum-total. (i.e. NOTHING matters.)
The death of each creature is a vital part of the equation of Total Love. Each cat on earth (male or female) on an average breeds three kittens per year. If each kitten born to ONE cat were to survive till adulthood, live out their full lifespan of 6-7 years and reproduce successfully, that one cat would bred 1,100 cats!
The same thing applies in various degrees to every other kind of animal, bird etc. What would they eat? Where would they freely roam?
So you see, for the common good of all creatures, death of all creatures in large numbers is necessary. And, as death is, so are disease, pain and suffering.
We humans seem to think that we can live outside this natural equation — that we can ‘cheat the system’. We appear to have been increasingly cheating the system for the past few hundred years, to the detriment of the other creatures, who are being crowded out. And we think this state of affairs can go on forever.
How very interesting!
same* discussions* - darned spelling errors!
One question…Do w also sit with our kids and let them discuss on bare essential issues of respect to elders and discipline in the sam manner? …If one learns the alphabets and the tables, it stays for life and it gets them to value the two things society (forget society)…our very own homes lack in these times…respect for elders and value of discipline. Do we support discussins and understanding these issues too? …Alright…this is more than just a single question right!
Enjoyed that we r all solar systems great way to get your point across! Total love and God’’s view and how love and indifference deep but i think I got some of what u mean! Yikes! Watz happening to me?
A late entry. Read the post, read the comments too. I have said it before and I say again… some folks REALLY hate u, man!!!! As for the post - I have just one thing to say - ”wow”. Love the way u write.
Wow!…you seem to have triggered quite a debate…The way I see it..God views all his creations..big or small…with equal fondness and this great love of his prevents him from overtly taking sides.Hence it is that the age old concept of the survival of the fittest has come about..be it between man and beast or between men and beasts.If it was the age of the Dinosaur before…this is the age of man and tomorrow may well be the age of another superior beast.If man has survived by crowding out other beasts it is not cheating the system but an act in the greater drama of creation.The Why’’s of life give man answers to survival not just his own but of the numerous creatures(predators included) on the verge of extinction.He knows things cannot go on forever…the debates raging around the world on every aspect of survival be it global warming or green house emissions is proof enough….may be this awareness is just Gods way of covertly ensuring the survival of all his precious creations….
There is so much speculation in PGR’’s post here. First the assumption that God is outside the egg and created it. Next, we are inside the egg cant see the outside. The paradoxically, in our mind’’s eye we see God who is outside in the act of Creation. so our imaginations have soared beyond the outside in a way that makes us see the Creator creating the Universe? Wow! Bird’’s eyeview of God. Let me give PGR a beautiful poem to quote the next time he wants to make this point. It’’s more effective and easier to understand than the egg. Called God … it goes like this: “The fish knows not the nature of the Sea/ Knows not how vast ,how wide indeed is the Sea/ Like unto the fish am I / I know thee not/ But I feel thee/ I live in thee/ And if perchance I move out of thee/ Sure I die. ” Now I have played a card for PGR’’s side. :)) I”ve indulged in the romance of religion, the kind that guarantees goose pimples and a warm inner glow.
hi:)
I agree with the preceding comment. To date, your iLand never fails to elicit a variety of opinions and trigger debates. Apparently, the characters and values of those who express their convictions in your blogs indirectly play a part in this little-big world you have created where they, at their end, become the sub-subject of praise or ridicule. FG, you”re like a Zeus of your own Mt. Olympus
You have other gods at and against ur side and your subjects are scattered all over! Thank goodness, I neither belong to any of them, LOL! Just an expectator from the outer rim 
You have a fantastic iLand for a screenplay!
wow …lot of debates and opinions.. u know krish, u always did/do this to others :))) hmm.. intestinnnng
FG, here’’s one of the many possible answers to the question: Dunno about God-Shod, but Mother Nature is a bitch! Agreed, you gotta wait for your kids to grow up before you can give this answer…I”m waiting too…with young kids, the concept of God is so amazingly convenient, other than the occasional awkward questions like these, why disabuse them prematurely and let go of a useful tool…!
To Sheila: 1) This is a blog not a thesis for a doctorate to cite references at every step. It would be as reader friendly as those dry documents at the university archives!! So just because there is no citation it doesnt become invalid. 2) Who decides who is an “authority”? There is no such thing! that was the message in my post to you. Authorities topple in time. It is therfore wise to read, reflect and form one’’s own opinions. If you say peopl should have read every shred of information on it from ”authority” before they venture to give an opinion then I can see all of us stagnating and rotting away. What can be imagined can be achieved. (No I didnt say that!!!) so its ok to dream to ponder and pontificate and theorise because it is on those kind of kernel hypotheses that people have mounted their ultimate discoveries. Long live the independent thinker!!! An opinion on a blog is not an edict or diktat. It’’s just that an invite to debate ! Why is everyone so hyper???
An individual’’s opinions and speculations under the title of God’’s Eye View does seem presumptuous. But then, it is probably a mistake to take seriously all that is presented on blogs, as blogs merely provide a platform to air ”talents” - prose, poetry, etc. - that would generally not be accepted anywhere else but by one’’s own diary. So, one cannot and should not expect quality let alone profundity. A change of title to My Eye View or Friendly Ghost’’s Eye View would be in order to serve the purpose of honesty unless you really believe that you are …… !!
Now to comment on the post ( only refer to my mind )– the very question that -“Why does God kill such cute, innocent creatures? Why does he inflict pain and disease on them? How can you say God is kind and merciful then?”-itself should give the answer . GOD is not responsible – He does not kill or make any –and the idea of GOD itself is not proved by any . Even if there is an argument that we need a super power to control universe , why don’t we feel then that there should be a super- super power to control him and so on and on ? So what are we trying to argue and debate ? On a theory that GOD is the controlling power and that he has got his own calculations – that is not proved scientifically anywhere ? It is all in the mind of the human that GOD lives and dies – And that is the truth for ME.( refer “My mind “ – page no # , para # , under topic “faith and U” - # will be different for different persons)
lots of debates , on god, on life and then on validity and authority!!! are we trying to establish the authority o GOD/ the writer / reader ? are we all trying to prove something - like the existance of GOD or FGS authority to write what he did ? In both cases it is waste of time- there are different sides to the topic and all are parrells that dont match . None of u are in any way planning to take whatever is written on iland as final word and then why this need to “prove” ??!!!! and are we doing some research here or simply expressing each others views? No one need to take all these are educating- there is no conclusions - and GOD is probably confused reading these !!This is another comment on the comments- ha ha
Thanks for the reply to the comment in here. Ur question “Does that make them invalid?”.To be truth ful ” NO “. Not that it does t nt become valid, but rather it doesnt have value. No knowledgeable person on the subject will accept them becasue ” FG ” said it or because ” Sheila ” said it. To be valid it has to come from an authority….. the Gita, the Upanishads, Osho, Bible , Koran anything for that matter.When quoted even if not in inverted comas ( ideally should be), if possible, for higher authorites like the Gita, Upanishad etc the exact source, for eg the verse number has to be shown. Otherwise it is just any other crap on the rediff illand. Where every one writes a “so good “comment .It is not like relating a life incident, telling a story. Since u are taking so much of trouble to educate people , it should be in such a style that it would benefit someone. Thanks again ….i hope i was not rude.Sheila
Debates on this subject is speculative. Your suppositions and conclusions are a bit simplistic. I would like to elaborate what Savi wanted to say. Imagine that we are inside an egg. We know this world as we see it within the egg. The one who stands outside the egg knows the egg and its relationship with all the entities outside. God knows the world, because He conceived it in His mind, as if from the outside, before it was created, and we do not know its rule, because we live inside it, having found it already made…The creations of art can be known from the outside, because we retrace in our minds the operations of the artificer. Not the creations of nature, because they are not the work of our minds…………PGR
To Lissome Lady: sorry if it sounded like “people dont read”. I only said ,”No scientific paper is complete without citing references”. Even to discard a theory one has to cite that theory, with the original reference. No one can present a paper as: Newton said , “…. ” without a reference, to where Newton said it .It has to be something like “this was reported in…..Journals of..year ,. page , and now i have found that ……. To support my finding i ………..”. To arrive at E= mc2 Einstein must have gone thru a whole lot of formulas which were already exstablished by previous mathematicians, physicists & he HAS to put down everything that was accepted /discarded by him, and why .There is nothing like ,” i feel …” or ” i believe…” in science. Quite a lot of people do / can do it . Ok with the less learned, But not accepted by the scientific community…
I think Sheila has a point. The tone of humility is never there in any of ur wanderings especially on topics beyond ur ken and daily experience. The difference between Sahiti’’s post and urs is white and black: hers is researched and served with humility and urs just opinions and seeking attention!!! I trust EVEN u would agree to the comparison.
We need not fear life, because GOD is the Ruler of all and we need not fear death, because He shares immortality with us.
As human beings, we are endowed with freedom of choice, and we cannot shuffle off our responsibility upon the shoulders of GOD or nature. We must shoulder it ourselves. It is up to us.
From ””The Wizard of Oz”” - “That proves you are unusual, returned the Scarecrow; and I am convinced the only people worthy of consideration in this world are the unusual ones. For the common folks are like the leaves of a tree, and LIVE AND DIE unnoticed.”
To preserve a life in the midst of so many chances and hostilities, is as great a miracle as to create him. On a mor philosophical note… DEATH is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives. Like the ole Spanish saying “Dios tarda pero no olvida — GOD delays but doesn”t forget”. BUT knowledge of ourselves teaches us where we come, where we are and where we are going. We come from GOD and we are in exile; and it is because our potency of affection lends towards GOD that we are aware of this state of exile.
Shiela you presume too much. Perhaps most people have read a lot more than you give them credit for. Perhaps most people do not agree with what has been said before. Original thinking, tangential thinking, out of the box thinking takes on research but relies on its own patterns of inference and creative energy to wonder about possibilities. so all that has been written before can be challenged. It happens in all fields. Otherwise the church would still be unchallenged on their Earthcentric, flat earth and creation theories. Otherwise we would not have physicists today second guessing Einsteins theory of E=mc2 by speculating on the behaviour of tachyons and predicting that once bypassed, it could open a revolution in new vistas. If Einstein had not dared we would still be calling Newton God!! Do not assume people do not read. Big mistake.
Also , this photograph is so terrribly beautiful ……….Sheila
Dear friendly ghost, u re writing such nice things on such nice topics. There are many nice people inhere saying nice things with a sincerity uncomparable. However somtimes this sincerity is in doing an original research on whether the earth is flat or round, why an object thrown up falls downwards , where does the sun disappear during a solar eclipse………without ever reading what the authority on these subjects (Newton and others) have said. It is a rule that every seeker of truth (researcher) has to go thru what the people before him has said about a subject before venturing to present his own findings before a learned audience. Much has been said about God in here on the Rediff iland. But no one seems to care what the earlier seekers on the same subject have said .No scientific paper is complete without citing references. It is unfortunate that most people dont know where to find the references when everything regarding God has already been recorded………Sheila
One thing I missed, which interestingly our intellect conncets us to, is our emotionality. Both the ability to laugh and cry is singularly human. The tendency to hold on to grief is the function of the memory and the ego which enjoys feeding on the ” pain body.” Re: Eckhart Tolle “The Power of Now” This contributes to Man’’s restless nature which creates both invention and perversion. :))) Very complex.. and yet so simple if we can face up to who we are!!!! Not that an intellectual dissection of all this is going to make it any different. God, therefore, is what we created. (Nature was the first Pagan god) God is the womb in which many of us seek peace and comfort, where we can move into a foetal postion without thought and rely on faith. It is our defence mechanism and our escape route and yes, part of the survival kit to prolong our time on the planet. Collectively our special intelligence will ensure we survive as far as possible.
FG, You are essentially talking of 1) the interconnectedness of all life and therefore the importance of all life big and small in the complex Web of Life. 2) the life and death cycle which is necessary for survival, sustenance, growth, mutation, and health of all Life. 3) The paradox arising from the ego of man who wants to outwit this natural scheme of things by prolonging his existence. 4) Fear of death and the unknown is a fallout of Man’’s ability to reason and to span time by thinking of the past and the future. Death hurts because we have a long memory. 5) The whole business of good and evil is again a fallout of the Intellect in its attempt to rationalise existence and death. This has led us to create heaven and hell and rebirth in our lust for life.. or to see ourselves continue in our children and posterity. 6) Man is short sighted and so he will come to penury. But as I have said in an earlier comment, the good Earth will go on, Man will be extinct. A blip in Time. Alas!
Beautiful photo, the sunset………………….
Nowadays man’’s life can be make longer with the knowledge and mediate of the modern times……..but is that good…………. Sometimes I think that a man/woman not even is allowed to die, when his/hers time has come………………I think that ‘’s not a right ethical development….and you?
i cudn”t understand statement 1….but I agree with the climax!
Dear FG, m not the intellectual one to comment on ur blog but understanding all these philosophy we still don’t want to understand one’s depart….“Dil hai k manta nahi” I never accept Death…….NEVER n tat WHY remain always inside me.
I still think that you are simplyfying entirely two different aspects .. 1. Man’’s thinking and efforts put in - to living longer and 2. Actions that lead to destruction of the other creatures. One is a survival instinct which each creature possessess and the other intentionally destructive action. If I think that I will last longer, merely by such foolishly thinking I am not destroying anything. If I wipe out the tigers then I am using my fire power which is, I agree, wrong. But again how many sensible people are there in this world? Refer to my previous comment about greed, lust and crime.
Rgds,
Sunshine
FG,
You got it right. Thats what I meant
And btw, if you get enough time, try to download the PDF version of that book and read it. Its really worth it !
Sunshine, you ask what I have against Man, who only has his intellect to protect him, as against the speed of the gazelle, the claws and strength of a lion etc. Well, the intellect of a human has turned out to be a weapon / tool which gives him overwhelming superiority over other creatures individually and collectively. So when you ask, “What do you have against mankind?” I reply, “He weilds the equivalent of machine guns and atom-bombs, whereas other creatures only have what is comparable to knives and spears.” The difference in firepower is enormous and unfair, and humans have no qualms about mindlessly using it at the least provocation. Do I really need to explain this any further? I will if you want me to.
FG, all your statements are absolute truths… but what is it that you have against MAN???? Can every man be as sensible as you are? If so then this would be utopia… no greed, no lust, no crime… but that too is an existential truth. Can you blame man if he thinks like he is going to last forever? After all man is the only “thinking” creature inhabiting earth. Does he have the claws of a liion? does he have the strenght of a gorilla? does have the stamina of a gazelle? can he soar with his wings? can he be underwater forever like afish…. none at all. All the creatures mentioned by me use these to survive. Man has only his mind and intelligence and to use that to survive is his prerogative.
” a body which is like a tropical forest”, ” cheating the system”….are thoughts which when thought in solitude seem so very alluring to the mind…that one almost loses control over the destination of this cerebral exercise. Your post is just another well directed stimulus.
Very well written post. Regards, Angad
Hey, loved the post! What a simple explanation for something that we rage and struggle with all our lives. Smart you are! If I didn”t know any better, Ghostie, you could be God!! :-))
Ditto Savi… Each stitch is imp but only in the wider context?……. The context that is out of our reach, knowledge? may be.. And also, God’’s ”Everything Matters” & ”Nothing Matters” are conveniently used/changed by man? isn”t it? But… FG, we do know somewhere that this state of affairs can Not go forever… but…may be we are imprisoned so much by our ”Desire”… with D capital…That we tend to forget this… Often!
I read the post and i was reminded of my fav story. I clasp it next to my heart wen things go rong and gods ways seem inexplicable as they are!! abt the child who watched his mothers embroidery from the underside and wondered wat the hell she was doing. He thot it was a meaningless occupation. wen iyt was complete he realised that i all the confusion he saw from the underside had ameaning. God has ameaning which we cannot see and maybe we are NOt meant to see? Each stictch is imp but only in the wider context?…….
RESPONSE TO VENKAT: I read the description of Adam’’s theory of God’’s Debris in Wikipedia. I understand that what you are saying is that simplistic explanations (like this post of mine) sound true and convincing NOT because they are actually true, but ONLY BECAUSE they are so simplistic that one cannot scientifically argue with them. Your point is well made, Venkat. I accept what you say.
REPLY TO JOLLY JACOB: ”Why” questions demand reasons, justifications in terms of ends, objectives and goals. Can I ask God / Nature for a justification for manifesting all this, all of us? I wonder. I believe that creation, like dreaming, is an end in itself. God / Nature dreams, and we are. That is all. I believe that life is an end in itelf. We live to live. We live to love, and love to live. We love to love. What say, Jolly?
One sentence would sum up ur point…………….Only God is real and permanent, everything else is unreal and transitory.
FG, I can understand and agree with 1 and 2 and 1+2, but can you kindly also tell us why we are here in the first place, as man / galaxy / bacteria. Why do we get into the cycle of birth and death?
I just started to read the post and one thing, one usage repeatedly appearing in the post…….. God / Nature….. caught my eye before any further reading was possible. The entity God has been swirling within my mind for quite some time now and the whole argument fomenting within my consciousness was regarding that one issue, God. Your usage has practically taken away all my ammo! Now I”ll read the post!
Whew!!!! But the thought that “Everything = Nothing” would answer quite a lot of doubts, mostly self doubts… thanx FG great write up !!!!
silly Rediff ! Patheitc escape of quotes !!
here are the links again:
fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Entertainment/Books/Scott_Adams.Gods_Debris.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God‘’s_Debris
Have you heard abt ”God’’s Debris”?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God‘’s_Debris
fringe.davesource.com/Fringe/Entertainment/Books/Scott_Adams.Gods_Debris.pdf
hmmm.. very intersting! and the way u presented is superb!
Fabulous!